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In
the Search of Lost Paradise
Ahmad
Nadalian
Department of Philosophy,
University of Perugia- Cosmopolis: Rivista Semestrale di cultura (1.
2008) ISSN: 1828-6771
Interview by Elahe Zomorodi
http://www.cosmopolisonline.it/20080624/nadalian.php
Introduction
Ahmad Nadalian is known internationally
as one of the foremost environmental artists. Born in 1963, in
Sangsar Iran he completed his B.A. in Painting in 1988 at the
Faculty of Fine Arts in the University of Tehran. During university
years he traveled extensively to all parts of Iran, recording many
of his experiences in drawings and photographs. Collections of his
drawings were published in 1987 and 1993.
In 1990 he moved to France where he spent
two years living in Paris, studying aspects of both historical and
contemporary arts at various museums and institutions. In 1991 he
commenced further studies at MPhil/ PhD level at the University of
Central England (UCE). His research focused on The Impact of
Mysticism on Art. He completed his studies and was awarded a Ph.D
in 1995. Subsequently in 1994 the UCE published
A Collection of Cartoon Drawings: Research
by Ahmad Nadalian.
Since his PhD he has largely made his
home in the north of Iran, beneath Damawand, the highest mountain in
Iran, in the Polour district (situated in the 65th kilometer of
Haraz-Amol Road). After his time in the west making this return to
nature began a new chapter in his life. After some stone carving in
Polour he has since involved (immersed?) himself in Environmental
Art. In the past decade, Nadalian expressed this concept through a
variety of mediums and techniques, including carved
stone, installation, performance, landscape art, video installation
and multimedia, as well as interactive works.
In 2003 he was invited to the 50th
Biennale of Venice where he presented his environmental art project.
He has since been invited to many countries to promote his
environmental art.
Over the past decade Nadalian has
traveled to cities and remote regions in every corner of the world,
creating countless stone carvings in nature, buried treasures and
works that he has tossed into rivers, spreading his message on a
scale that few artists have done before. Now most of Nadalians
works are scattered across the globe.
A number of books, catalogues and
magazines of contemporary art include Nadalians works and many art
critics hold his work in high esteem.
Edward Lucie-Smith introduces Nadalian as
one of the worlds leading environmental artists in his book
Art Tomorrow,
where his work is presented alongside that of British Environmental
artist Andy Goldsworthy. In Lucie-Smiths words: various symbols
are incised on boulders- chiefly fish, which for the artist are
emblems of the human soul, thirsty to experience life.
In 2007, John K. Grande in his book
Dialogue in Diversity
showcases Nadalian beside artists such as Antony Gormley, Christo
and Jeanne Claude, saying in the following excerpt: Nadalian is an
Iranian sculptor whose lifes work involves engendering respect for
living creatures and the natural environment. To achieve this,
besides living with nature himself, he established sculpture grounds
in a peaceful environment in natural surroundings. Water is a living
element that contributes to his sculptures and many of the symbols
he engraves and sculpts are derived from ancient mythology and the
rituals of pre-Islamic civilizations []. Nadalians art focuses on
fundamental crises in the contemporary world... If there are any
audiences in the future, his work will tell them the story of life
and humanity. Nadalian presents his works via new media, and
utilizes the capabilities of the digital age, such as the internet.
In a recent article the American art
critic Robert C. Morgan comments: Ahmad Nadalians work is like a
synoptical charge between the Paleolithic cave art and Ancient
Persia He is well versed in computer language and believes that the
most viable and effective way of transmitting his message as an
artist is through digital displays, the Internet, and his own
extensively designed websites of which he has three. Yves Klein felt
that art was somewhere between the ancient world and the future. A
similar statement could be made about Nadalian, except that his
forms appear as simulacra of a pre-linguistic culture, in fact, as
true signs reiterating something about our present moment []. One
could say that Nadalians real studios are the rivers of the world.
Nadalians work is a kind of a combined Earth and Process art, at
least in Western terms. Yet he is also within the context of
Postmodernism by returning us to an era when language did not exist
other than as signs, an era when there were no urban monuments and
no public art in city squares (Sculpture Magazine, Vol. 27, n. 2,
March 2008).
The main characteristic of Nadalians art
can be summarized as follows. Nadalian is very sensitive about the
environment in which he lives. One of the important characteristic
of his works is that he is always inspired by the natural, social
and political environments. Environmental crises, natural disasters,
lack of respect towards old heritage, war and terrorism. These are
issues that he focuses upon and explores in his works. The
Environment is not the only source of his work, but he finds it the
best place in which to present it.
Works by Nadalian show a synthesis of
primitive and high technologies. Many of his themes find their roots
in the beginning of time when humans first started to evolve global
mythologies in relation to their lives on earth. On the other hand
Nadalian takes issues of the digitalization of the beginning of 21st
century and produces them in interactive cyber spaces. He believes
that a website is not only a place to introduce his work, but a
contemporary environment in which to convey his ideas and art. He
creates works which are very solid or permanent on the one hand,
while on the other creating temporary works which cannot resist
their erosion in nature in the long-term.
In the interactive works
which he presents to the internet, audiences are not passive. The
work can be touched, discovered, and through interaction the
audience can be creative. Within this interaction people create
their own environment. They discover that his work is human
friendly. Within his interactive multimedia, they can click and
change sequences, colours and composition.
How did you get involved in
environmental art?
My
ancestors were nomads and lived in nature. When I was a child, in summer
time I lived with my grandfather in unspoiled countryside near Damawand
Mountain, and close to a village named Polour. But my father worked in
the city, and during winter I lived with my family in Tehran and studied
at school.
When I finished my high school education and
entered the faculty of fine art, in most of my free time I traveled or
lived in nature. I made many drawings during my journeys which
emphasized the daily life of the local people. I also painted the local
landscapes.
From 1990 to 1996 I lived in Europe. In these
years I was very far from my perception of pure nature. For me the
countryside of the west looks artificial. But I learned many things
about different cultures, and I realized what is going on in the
contemporary world. In 1992 I married and after a year my son was born.
When I finished my studies we came back to Iran, and I decided to live
in a peaceful environment, far away from the big cities such as Tehran.
The best place I knew was where my ancestors lived. For me, returning to
the land of my ancestors was like reviving my childhood memories. I had
many memories and I was in search of my lost paradise. My feeling was
that I had lost my link with nature and it was time to return to it.
Nature is a holy place, where we can see the manifestations of God. I
had the desire to create works within the context of nature. For five
years in late spring and summer we lived in tents. Polour is a
mountainous region and living in a tent can be hard. Despite this my
wife, son and mother accompanied me. In the early years we had very
basic facilities and lived like my ancestors. But at least for me this
kind of life had its own beauty and I learned many things in nature.
My initial plan was to paint on a large
scale, but as we were living in tent and had little space I found this
to be impossible. Sometimes the weather was cold and windy and raining
with a high humidity. The shortage of materials for painting on this
scale was an obstacle. Hence I decided to find a local medium from the
landscape where I lived to convey my thoughts. Stone was one of the best
choices: many of them were suitable for carving and could be found in
river bed near our camp site. I started to use primitive pointed tools
to engrave stones. Then I discovered that I could use a hard stone to
polish soft stone. My techniques were very primitive and I discovered
all that primitive man had done before me. Usually I chose my stones on
rainy days. Soft stones on a rainy day were not shiny, so they were
suitable for my work.
Gradually the shape of stones defined the
subject matters of my work. I couldnt adjust any image on any stone. I
felt that I had to work with the organic shapes of the stones and create
my work with them. The stones were already half finished. All I had to
do was add some images, lines, textures and then they became a new
inspiration for the work I do today. I named them ready-made
sculpture.
Very soon, I started to carve large boulders
in flowing rivers and my intention was to leave my works in nature. At
the beginning it could be reference to primitive works or pre-Islamic
carvings on the rocks which exist in many places in Iran. But now it is
more that ten years since I began this project and at this stage it has
had many meanings and interpretations. Nowadays I have become known as a
land artist whose works has a strong ecological message.
Although I cant change
nature, my hope is to be one with nature. I want to understand my
surroundings and open a new window to see a new world. I want to
establish a balance between art, ecological education and the order of
the universe.
How would you define
environmental art and how you do you work as an environmental artist?
There
are many definitions for environmental art. In some of them we find
contradictions. My definition of environmental art is art in which
artists in the natural environment utilize natural elements to create
their art works, which are a mostly a type of site specific
installation. Sometimes artists may bring elements or objects and
install them in nature. Most contemporary environmental artists are over
sensitive towards the ecological themes. In many cases environmental art
is mixed with body art and performance. Artists in nature or even within
a city environment may utilize objects or even garbage that people leave
within their surroundings to create art works.
Environmental art for me is on the one
hand very personal, and on the other hand collaborative. In any area
or region where I work, I collaborate with local communities, and
local rituals have a reflection on my work. In many cases audiences
are not passive observers of my art, and may be interactive. I dont
want to impose a single narrative.
In my view the process of making art is
important. So how
I live in nature and how
I discover my way and
how I
educate myself is more important than the final result. Since this
process is crucial and most of my environmental art can be shaped
far from an audience, its documentation and presentation for the
media is an important part of the process. I also convey my concept
via new media, so they play an important role in my work.
Environmental art for me
has a still bigger meaning. In my art, besides nature, I consider
the cultural, social and political environment too. In many cases
they are directly or indirectly linked together. In the world in
which we live it is difficult not to think exclusively of the
natural environment or animals. If humans arent higher than another
living creature, then we are at least equal. Some environmentalists
think and work for the right of every creature except the human
being. They are worried about wolves, foxes, dogs and cats, but they
are blind to the deaths of thousands people per day. I think in
nature, humans and all living creatures face the same crises. So in
my art I consider all of them.
What has been the influence
of Iran on your work? Do you think your art has any Iranian
characteristics?
Social, political,
cultural, and more specific environmental issues of present day in Iran
can be seen reflected in my art. To be honest, our national
characteristics define our works. Also our ethnic background naturally
appears in our work. But I think, we should not try or decide to have
national character identification. It is difficult to move away from our
background and local culture. Art can be like our life. In our life we
do what we think it is right to do. I think my art has Iranian
character, but this is one side of my work. I belong to this earth and
this time too. I am interested to see local issues in relation to global
ones.
What is the need or
necessity of environmental art?
In the
past, natural elements were regarded as sacred. Today such beliefs are
rare and we are dominated by modern technology. Man once saw his destiny
and future in the sky, but now, via new technology, we see the earth
from the sky. We need to bring back those important elements and respect
nature, and in my work I feel I am making one small contribution to
improving the relationship between man and nature.
In the world today there are many threats,
worries, regrets, and wishes. Lack of ethics and bad behavior toward the
environment, can not only be seen in my village, but also in the global
village. People are worried about wars, terrorism, bullying and
injustice. The vast scale of these problems suggest vast consequences.
Many intellectuals and scientists only inform us how we are damaging our
lives and what the consequences will be. I feel art is not only for the
intellectual and should not be isolated; this shows the danger of
ecological disasters, bringing the issue on to the table of the mass
media on a scale that people across the globe can recognize. Instead
destroying and polluting natural resources, humans today more than ever
need to respect nature. Destroying nature is destroying human values,
because humans are themselves a part of nature.
Many countries already have fully developed
industries and in developing countries like mine, we witness the rapid
development of industry. We received industry but we didnt fully learn
how to face the consequences of the impact on the environment. Modern
industries use chemical materials in a different way. So in many places
in the world nature becomes polluted. Traditional products do not
pollute. But todays chemicals that pollute nature are not recyclable.
This message from artists can
show the ugliness of wars, terrors and the vast ecological crises better
than any other. The language of environmental art has no boundary and
can be comprehended by people in any culture. Hence environmental art is
the need of today and tomorrow.
When you established the
Paradise Art Centre, what has been your achievement?
Since
the early years when we lived and worked in nature, many local and
international artists contacted us and wished to stay with us, and
created their art works in nature.
Between 2000-2001 we constructed two
buildings in our little garden and since then we have established an
official international residential art centre. So far we have received
more than twenty international artists from countries such as Germany,
The Netherlands, UK, Lebanon, USA, Australia, Switzerland, Ireland,
Japan, Greece, Belgium. The International artists who came in summer
time stayed in our little villa, and grasped their environmental art in
the landscape of Iran.
Besides international artists
some hundreds of young Iranian artists also came to our garden and
grasped their art projects in this paradise. We found that visiting
artists were fulfilled at the centre, and this led on to further
projects, establishing the art centre as the leading environmental
destination in Iran. In the past seven years Paradise Art Centre has
arranged and supported over 15 environmental art festivals. Here in
Paradise we have prepared workshops and short courses for different
groups of younger generations where they learn environmental art.
Through discussion on examples of works by famous environmental artists
they gain inspiration to develop their own works in nature. Paradise is
a place where international and Iranian artists meet and exchange
experiences.
How is the condition and popularity of
environmental art in Iran now, and what is the future of this art in
your country?
In Iran
now, many young artists are active in this area. So far we have no
sponsors; despite this we always make progress. We often work in a way
that doesnt need budgets and publishing works on the internet is not
very expensive.
I am sure in the near future
we will have one of the strongest movements of ecological art worldwide
in Iran. I have some reasons for this. The religious teachings from
pre-Islamic religions such as Zoroastrian, Manichaean, Mithraism and
later Islamic religion in Iran also mention the protection of nature. In
all of them polluting nature is a sin. Iran is a large country and we
have diversity of culture. The cultures of most neighboring countries of
Iran can be seen in Iran. This diversity of culture can enrich our
works. The natural environment in Iran is also diverse. We have high
mountains, forests, deserts Such diversity is ideal for environmental
artists. We have one of the youngest populations in the world. 50
percent of the population of Iran is younger than 35. Due to present
political and cultural conditions the young generation has less
distraction than those in the west. That is why the young generation
usually shows interest to this trend. They are a good choice of people
to promote this art. The new generation of art is our future.
What has been the impact of
your life in the west on your present works?
When I
lived in Europe, besides studying at university, I frequently visited
museums and art centres and all these had a great impact on my
understanding of art. Now I know the basic characteristics of
contemporary art. What I learned in the west wasnt limited to art, but
more awareness about the world where I am living, its reality and
crises. Comparing my culture and western culture led me to find out the
characteristics of my own culture. Because local uniqueness can be
comprehended when we see something different. Life in an advanced
country helps us to see the future of our society. In some ways we
follow the same process, and we can imagine in future we will be faced
with a similar condition. Living in the west changed my perception and
created awareness about many issues.
Of course I should add, in the
past ten years I often travel to different countries and many
international artists come to Iran and live with us. In the past year I
have made seven trips to seven countries and seven international artists
came to Iran and worked with us. These exchanges always refreshed my
knowledge. But the most important gateway for me to learn about western
culture is the internet. I am physically in Iran, while virtually I have
a continuing dialogue with people like me who live in the different
parts of world. Regardless of where we live in our time, it is possible
to work with people who live in different geographical locations. This
is one of the characteristics of our time, in that the meaning of time
and space is different from the past.
How do you choose the time
and location of your works?
Generally I work all the time, even on holidays. If there is an
interruption of my work I am not satisfied. As an environmental artist
most of my time is spent in the day time when the weather is fine.
Spring and summer are more relevant. In many cases my carvings are
worked in the middle of a river. So the water is not very cold at these
times of year.
As far as the location goes,
when I am at home I have a feeling for a location and go out in search
of it. Of course the stone has to be suitable. But for locations in
other countries, I have often traveled to different countries after an
invitation. So the organizations and/or individuals select general
locations for me. When I am in the area that people have suggested,
selection of exact location and type of works depend on the landscape.
The quality or sometimes the colour of stones must be suitable. But
sometimes the quality of stone may change, as well as the technique of
my work. Sometimes shortages of needed materials result in an invention
of new works. One of the reasons that I started to work with cylinder
seals, and print on sand was, that in some areas I couldnt find stones
or rocks. Therefore, the environment, location, and time always define
my work in many ways.
How do you use color in
your works?
When I work in nature
I am amongst colours. I mostly take photos of my carved stones when the
stones are wet and they show the reflection of surrounding colours. I
carve many of my fish beside a hollow full of water and I take photos of
them when I see the reflection of sky. Sometime I choose the colourful
part of a rock and I adjust my design with the shape and colours. But
generally my carvings are simple and I think sometimes works with fewer
elements are stronger than more complicated works. In recent years I
have used red earth to paint on the face of people and some times I use
coloured earth for large installations to paint on the earth.
You have participated in
many festivals. Which of them were more interesting?
In 2005
Washington University in Seattle invited me to present my works in a
conference and workshop. My environmental works were reviewed there.
This gathering was very interesting, because the participants were a
mixture of scientists and artists. Scientists talk about ecological
crises and the way that they find a solution, and artists too showed
their art and how they show the ecological crises in their art, and
suggested a solution in education. In Seattle I produced a collection of
works. When I was there I had a feeling. It was one of the furthest
places I could go from my home. When I called my family I noticed that
the time in Tehran is 12 hours ahead. So when I was in Seattle I was one
day younger. We are living in an amazing world. Prehistoric man knew
nothing of this.
The
other interesting event was the Green Art festival in Italy which is
held in a valley near Stiappa village not very far from Pescia in
Florence. In this festival we lived in tents by a river for two
weeks. There were many German artists who participated in this
festival. The facilities of life were at a minimum. We took baths in
the river. Drinking water came from a spring. I had already
experienced this way of life. But what was interesting was that I
could see people from other parts of the world that chose this
primitive way of life. For me this festival was the most productive
in terms of both the quality and the quantity of my works.
What types of Symbols exist
in your works, and how are they shaped?
Most of
the designs I present in nature are: fish, snakes, hands or foot prints,
goddesses of water and fertility In the early stages I mostly depicted
the creatures that may exist or existed in our surroundings, and for me
they had a simple meaning. But through time my understanding and
intention, and the interpretations of my audience enrich and expand
their meaning. Sometimes I depict mythological symbols too. They have
old meanings but new applications.
The first designs I left in nature were fish.
I depicted them on the edge of river and waves of water made part of the
design wet. The reason why I chose the river is because usually I
collect my stones in riverbeds. The reason I produce a fish design is
because it is the most abundant indigenous creature in the river. Now I
have many reasons for the depiction of fish. Fish have existed almost
everywhere in the world. All people in the world can understand fish.
Fish are a symbol for all nations, and appear in the zodiac symbology as
Pisces. So fish can be found within ancient myths and astronomy. When I
was a child the rivers of Polour were full of fish. Through time I found
the wellspring was polluted by modern man and his methods, and due to
these pollutions the river in turn no longer had any fish. Depicting the
fish always suggests the question of why there are no fish. I created
hundreds of fish on the stones of the river and dedicated them to the
goddesses of fertility. I wanted to build my own paradise. My most
beautiful moments were when I sat watching the turbulence of the river,
and the frolicking of my imaginary fish. My fish are similar to humans.
Fish can not live in a polluted area. If they die, humans will die too!
The darkest moments were when I witnessed the
death of my fish. I saw that, during mans construction, my fish were
buried time and again by his actions. Now for me the birth of my
imaginary fish, their effort to survive, the ugliness of the evil times
that destroy my fish are a metaphor for the life of human beings in the
present and the world we are living in. I am not tired. I like to
believe that these fish are alive, and are swimming against the tides. I
am as determined as ever to build my paradise again. I will carve fish
for the whole of my life. I want to show pain and suffering, which are
part of human nature. But we are responsible too. What is going on in
the world is the result of our behavior.
In any case I want to save fish. In many
occasions in the past decade I have also dropped the stones which have
imaginary fish carved onto them into the rivers, canals, reservoirs, and
seas. I documented the process of the fish as they fell under the water.
When I was participating in the 50th biennale of Venice I dropped many
fish into the canals of Venice. This is a ritual for me and has a
symbolic meaning. My fish will drop to the bottom and remain there
forever. They are alive and will live a secret life to be reincarnated
one day again. Hiding does not mean degeneration and death. I have
continued with this tradition and many rivers across the world host my
fish. I want to dedicate my fish to humanity.
I have also depicted water goddesses, which
in many cultures are related to fish as both are a symbol of fertility.
In many ancient beliefs the earth and creation are imagined as a female
figure.
Snakes can frequently be seen in my works. I
use this symbol as a reference: the exclusion of Adam and Eve in heaven.
The snake symbolises evil on the one hand, but lifes eternity on the
other.
Traces of hands and feet are also frequent
patterns which I depict everywhere around the world. They describe the
moments in which man directly touches nature. Hands or feet are our
secondary eyes. In a dark space we can use our hands or feet and see our
surroundings.
In most of my works the order
of the universe offers a meaning to the work. The movement of water in
rivers, the rise of the water-level in the spring, making the stones
grow with algae turning them green, the falling of the water-level and
drying up of the rivers beds in autumn, waves changing the personality
of my fish and other creatures. Many of these designs and symbols can be
seen in my cylinder seals and sand prints. Also the ebb and flow of
water in sea that slowly washes away my sand prints or the wind of
desert that remove them very fast are part of the process and cycle of
my works. The aim is to be sensitive to nature and its order and to have
harmony between mans action and natures order.
Why do you bury your works
in earth?
Between
1998 and 1999, and afterwards, many of my carvings were destroyed and my
fish buried by the machines of companies which constructed roads or
built factories near the river. I wasnt expecting it to happen like
this, but I was sensitive and transformed this piece of bad luck into a
new form of art. I documented what happened and presented it in the 50th
biennale of Venice.
In the past six years, I also buried many of
my carvings in the ground. This project named Hidden Treasure: An art
exhibition for the next millenniums. The story of Hidden Treasures
began when the people of Polour started to excavate the place where I
carved several images and texts on the local rocks. They hoped to find
treasures there. According to a tradition in the north of Iran, the
images of fish or a snake on the rocks can be a sign of treasure. I
never ignored that my work was perhaps an indication of treasure when I
heard this story. I used this accident to produce a new collection of
works. I have started to bury many of my carved stones in the earth. The
above story has now changed my understanding of our earth. For me the
earth and the museums are one and the same. Earth has always been the
cradle of civilizations and cultures. The objects and pieces that can be
found in and from the earth show the beliefs, life, and perhaps most
importantly, the beautiful mind of past people. The fact is that if we
excavate the earth now the ugliest layers belong to contemporary man.
Posing this question is important: why do we
only use
the natural and cultural resources of the habitats in which we live? Can
we add any more to the values which are already hidden in nature?
I leave my carvings under the
earth as seeds and deep-rooted hopes that the future will provide for
the growth of a new culture. We should all cultivate these ideas and
work to make our earth richer.
There are the influences of
primitive arts, and art works of ancient Persia on your works: what is
the difference between your work and works from ancient time?
I like
to be in nature as a primitive man, and produce works similar to his.
But it is impossible. Apparently they look similar. The first difference
is that primitive people lived naturally within nature and it seems that
they had no other choice, whereas I have chosen this as a part of my
life. My choice is not necessarily an advantage. I havent destroyed the
bridge to the present. I am not alone in choosing this path. Many modern
and contemporary artists have done the same. This is nostalgic. Among
the works of land artists we can see archetypal patterns such as spiral
and circle designs which have been borrowed from the early time of man.
Many contemporary artists are inspired by primitive rituals. But the
difference is that the rituals in the past relate to the belief of a
community but today respond to the need of individuals. Hence we use
past art patterns, traditions and rituals in a new context, and we have
developed different aims.
It is true that in many ways the subject
matters and techniques of my work have been inspired from ancient
Persia. The goddess of fertility in my work comes from an ancient
belief. In ancient Persia, they had temples that worshipped water. They
believed the goddess purified all water on earth, and the milk from the
mothers breast. Now I think we need to bring back these spiritualities.
Actually many rituals still exist in Iran today. We can see those who
accompany a traveler pour some water behind her or him wishing that the
person who travels will flow like pure water. Our New Year, unlike the
many other parts of the world, starts on 21st of March, the first day of
spring. This shows that we are sensitive to the balance of the universe
in our calendar. Still today we display a red fish in a bowl on our New
Years table as a symbol of life.
Technically I use stone which was a common
feature in ancient Persia. Stone is a relevant medium by mythological
subjects. But this material is not my final aim. The modes of
presentation, processes, consequences, and final interpretations of my
works are different from the works of ancient time.
It is important to understand that I, myself,
convey my concept, in present time, in different contexts,
justification, background and achievement. I try to create my work with
a unique aim and use different media to promote it. In the early years
when I lived in nature and I started carving, I carved small stones and
left them in nature. I announced this on my web site and wished to bring
people in touch with nature. I think those who came and carefully
searched saw the beauty and the disrespect of nature. So I went on and
made carvings similar to the past works, but the aim changed.
My cylinder seals also show inspiration of
old techniques in Persia. Such cylinders in ancient times existed in
small sizes and had different applications. I made large cylinders which
were adorned with my own designs, and I rolled them on the sand of the
beach or the desert. The results usually show a myriad harvest of living
creatures adorning the beach or sand of the desert. Eventually of course
the tide of seas or winds in deserts will wash over them or erase them.
Some of my works are temporary. I use red
earth and paint portraits of people. Unlike the stone, when I finish
these paintings I take photos, and as the red earth is organic, not a
processed chemical dye, the people can then simply wash it off. In many
cases I like to show the oldest meaning by the newest medium. Maybe the
dedication to something in nature is primitive, but the documentation
and presentation of the works in cyber space is quite new.
I believe spiritual rituals that respect
nature are one of the essential needs of man. Nevertheless such needs
dont mean that we should ignore our present needs of man on earth. I
dont want to just lose these values. That is why I use new technology
and my works depend on new media. The past tradition and the
achievements of humanity from the beginning of the third millennium have
their own values. These two are like a grand mother and child. For me an
old tradition and new media are two wings with which I can fly.
Past traditions can extend the time of my
works, because the subject matter are timeless and material such as
stone can remain for centuries. But new media are a mirror and can
extend the concept of my work in virtual space. If I use these media my
work can be seen in different locations and consequently in different
times. I cannot ignore the pleasures of the speed of contemporary media
such as the internet. The speed of conveying ideas like this has never
been experienced before. Therefore we dont lose any value, but gain a
new value. These new media are a bridge which brings attention to my
traditional values. I want to make a balance and link between the
eternity of the past and the timelessness of virtual/cyber space.
I present my work via photos, video,
multimedia CD format, and interactive art. Unlike the art of the past my
artworks are small and they may be very far from the audience, and
sometimes they exist only temporarily. Without photography of the
process and presentation in new media the audience could never
experience them.
When I drop a fish in the river there is
nothing obvious to see, but the photos which show the process convey the
concept. Only digital photography can save this moment. My photos show
the moment the stone hits the water and the shape of water is amazing.
They might even be regarded as Water Sculpture. Even the people who
are there and witness the process of the performance cannot see it
happen until they see the digital photos.
For much of my work I use new technologies. I
have chosen the location of some large scale works to be seen on Google
Earth. I also present some works in a chat room. So many works are
solely shaped and presented in virtual space.
I always love to make a
bridge. A bridge between ancient symbols and new media, between folk and
intellectual art; sometimes I work amongst the public and ordinary
people, while at present my works are among intellectuals. On the other
hand I take the art of the intellectual and present it among ordinary
people in a way that they can digest it.
Please explain about the
works that use new media and how you present them in cyber space.
New
technology and media show a new horizon. The invention and development
of new technology has always produced new forms of art. We are living in
a new age, one which has its unique culture and arts, and this age of
communication is shaping a new form of art, a kind of digital art which
is virtual and interactive. New media and electronic tools have created
a global culture, as artists need to exchange ideas and thoughts with
each other.
The contemporary tools which are available in
our surroundings present many choices to each individual. Hence even in
art when we use new tools, we can not impose a single narrative on our
audience. That is why many of my artworks are virtual and interactive.
Even the presentation of some of my recent video installations which
show my environmental art is a type of interaction. Audiences could
interact and be creative.
Today computer and its related technology
have changed our lives. Our memory, even in a traditional country like
Iran, is partly digital. In a world in which information has no borders,
we are able to publish our works digitally and make them accessible to
everyone regardless of their physical location. In the near future,
maybe people will have no time to visit an art work physically. So we
always need an alternative. In addition I would say the new world brings
new issues, and some of the contemporary subjects may not be able to be
expressed by traditional tools. Despite all of this I never destroy a
bridge to the past. There is always a possibility to step back.
In my view the Internet is a
window to the world through which we can see and be seen. In many of my
works I show virtual reality, virtual knowledge or feeling. In many
cases we communicate with people in the internet, but we dont know
whether they are male of female, young or old.
Could you tell us about
your reflection on wars and terror in your work and about your
approaches toward peace?
For
nearly three decades now war has been raging in this region. In 1981,
under the orders and leadership of Saddam Hussein, Iraq attacked my
country. This war resulted in hundreds of thousands of martyrs and
casualties. During that war Saddam Husseins army used chemical weapons
against both Iran and his own people in cities such as Halabja. There
are still people who suffer because they were targeted by chemical
weapons. During this war millions of innocent people also lost their
homes. This war continued for eight years. At that time I was a student.
I made many drawings which showed casualties of war and the people who
defended my country.
Then in 1991 Saddam Husseins army attacked
Kuwait, and the following war involved coalition forces from 34 nations.
Finally in 2003 USA and its allies attacked Iraq. As a result of these
wars we have witnessed the deaths and suffering of millions of human
beings and the loss of countless living creatures.
We shouldnt forget the terror of 9/11. It
was a key point which in turn was followed by many other terrorist
activities across the globe. I call this The Third World War, at any
rate its fear now exists everywhere. In any case as an artist I totally
reject terror of innocent people in any place, which I believe is evil.
As a reaction to these terrors such as 9/11 and the terror attack on
people in Atocha train station in Spain, the on-going conflict in the
Middle East and many other places, I have produced many art works in
diverse media such as installations, performances and interactive
multimedia. After presenting an installation and performance in Spain a
journalist asked me: what is your opinion about terror? I replied:
this is the wrong question. As a human I dont even like to see a bird
disturbed from its nest by the sound of a bomb.
9/11 was a reason to dominate Afghanistan.
The conflict in that region and in Iraq was not finished and war was
still raging on. Some politicians now speak about the cost of war. But
the cost of these wars is not only money. I think in these wars usually
innocent people pay the price. In some of my installations and
multimedia I have also reacted to these wars, in which I believe people
suffer the most.
Domination of a country can bring more
terror. This is what we see in Iraq. Can we establish democracy through
war, thanks to those countries who removed Saddam Hussein? Was he the
only dictator? If yes, then why for many years did the west support him
and supply weapons to fight the Iranian and Kurdish people? By the way,
there are many countries in the Middle East which have never experienced
democracy. But the western media say nothing about the lack of democracy
in these countries. It seems that these wars are more related to oil,
selling weapons and creating jobs for their companies.
Now America and some of the European nations
are suggesting another war, this time against Iran. As a reaction to
these suggestions and to show the impact of past war on the life of
ordinary people we made a huge installation which was a reference to the
death of innocent people. In the 15th environmetal art festival in the
Persian Gulf, a group of artists designed an airplane on the southern
coast of Hormoz Island in Persian Gulf as a collaborative project. The
outline drawing was emphasised by the red earth of Hormoz. With the
incoming tide the design was slowly washed away. Many artists who were
located on different locations around the art work saw and recorded the
process of the vanishing airplane. The impression of red earth aginst
dark blue revealed the tragedy of war in the Persian Gulf. Finally only
this number was left IR 655.
The work related to an event that took place
on Sunday, July 3rd, 1988. Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a commercial
flight operated from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai. The aircraft IR655 was
shot down by a U.S. Navy guided missile from the cruiser USS
Vincennes,
killing all 290 passengers and crew on board, including 38 non-Iranians
and 66 children, 8 of them less than 2 years old. The
Vincennes
was inside Iranian territorial waters at the time of the incident.
According to the U.S. government, the Iranian aircraft was mistakenly
identified as an attacking military fighter.
British sculptor Benjamin
Hewett, who participated in this festival, helped us to design this
work. We named the festival Dream of Peace. We hoped that dialogue
instead of war can solve this misunderstanding.
You have presented a
multimedia work about nuclear energy. What does it mean for you?
This work shows a
space like galaxy in which
nuclei
grow, and finally we see many trees. Due to frequent news in the west
many politicians, journalists and scientists search Nuclear Energy
related to Iran on the internet. Many internet users, when they search
this topic, find this page too. Many of them send me e-mails. It is a
personal understanding and interpretation of nuclear energy. As an
environmentalist I am sensitive about the development of a nuclear bomb.
But according to a report of the Agency of Nuclear Energy there is no
issue in Iran. America and Europe suspect that Iran may one day make a
nuclear bomb. But we are sure that many countries have already made
these bombs, and we know they have used it, and they have many of them
now. Of course the atomic bomb is very bad but why do we legitimize it
for some countries and not others? As an environmental artist I now
worry about existing nuclear bombs. First of all we should try to
destroy these bombs safely.
What do you think about globalization in
relation to border of cultures and races?
In the
past decade, because of the development of new media, there are
virtually no borders. But after 9/11 due to growth of terrorism,
political and geographical borders are now stronger and closed. In the
past decade many former countries fragmented. Getting visas is now a
longer process, and travel or immigration is more difficult, at least
for Muslim people who wish to go to the west.
I am not an expert on the economy and I dont
know what the results of globalization on the world economy might be. Is
it good or bad? But I support cultural globalism. My conditions for this
type of globalism are that we dont consider western cultures as a world
model, and that we respect local cultures too. In my view there is no
contradiction between global and local cultures. We can have both of
them. I know that my fish were born in the stream of my village and now
they want to swim in the ocean of the global village.
I think even in the worst cases, at least
artists from different cultures have some tolerance, and there is
dialogue and exchange. Maybe in the eyes of politicians, Iran and
the USA are not friends. But for artists from these two countries no
such barrier exists. There are contemporary American artists who are
inspired by Iranian or Islamic art. The best example is Joyce
Kozloff who traveled to Iran few years ago. She presented her
discussion on feminism in American contemporary art at the Museum of
contemporary Art in Tehran.
Only a few months ago the same museum
showed the works of American video artist Bill Viola and feminist
artist Suzanne Lacy. American art critic Robert C. Morgan has
traveled to Iran twice in the past 12 months and has been on the
jury of the International Symposium and biennale of sculpture in
Tehran. In the past decade many young artists have studied American
post minimal art in detail and we can now see its impact on our
contemporary art.
In April 2007 a group of Iranian artists
were invited to USA by the Meridian International Art Center and
their works were shown in Washington DC. Now the same exhibition is
in New York. I was one of the artists who presented works, and
during my journey I left many land art works in Washington DC, New
York, Kansas, Missouri, and New Mexico. The staff of this
organization and all the people who I met during my journey made
their best efforts to assist me in realizing my works throughout the
USA.
Beside these examples, in the area of
environmental art I have a close and friendly collaboration with
organizations in the USA who act as a green movement. I believe
artists are the best ambassadors to remove misunderstanding.
Borders have political meanings and they
may show races, belief but today in art, borders still exist, but
not as strongly as in the past. As far as I can understand the
priority of respect in my culture is not race. Rumi (the Sufic poet)
was born in Afghanistan, not present Iran, and buried in Turkey. But
all Iranians respected him because they understood his spiritual
message. From a cultural point of view I dont recognize borders. I
love to be like my fish crossing the borders. I know that fish live
with more ease than humans do. They move from one corner of the
world to another. They do not recognize borders.
In the past decade many organizations and
individuals have helped me to take my fish to different parts of the
world. It is a strange world in which my closest friends, who
support my environmental art, and who share the same approaches to
art, are mostly American. In March 2008, American art critic, Robert
C. Morgon wrote an article in the "Sculpture Magazine" and kindly
focused on my work.
My American friends
Abigail Doan and Barbara Roux sent their designs and concepts for
our Environmental Art festival in the Persian Gulf named Dream of
Peace. We think of the whole planet in which we live. We live in
two different countries, but one earth and one God created all of
us.
Interview given on April 3rd,
2008
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